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Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Explain and discuss different trading strategies.
Pl4t0
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Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby Pl4t0 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:52 pm

So I have a particular strategy that I would like to employ, however I lack the willpower to crawl through the wiki to figure out which option fulfills this. My interest for this particular bot is High Frequency, that being between 10min and 30min indicator intervals. I want to find a range between which I feel that the price is fluctuating, say 235 and 248. Obviously sell at 248 and buy at 235. This setting is easy with the High/Low option. Next, I would like to ensure that I am in the Sold position in the event of a large drop in price. Yet again this is easy with a Static Drop Loss set at 225. Of course I would make the margins of my High/Low such that I remain profitable and activate the Overcome Fee Costs option (kudos for that one, its great!). Now comes to part where I need a bit of help. I would also like to ensure that in the event of drastic price increase, say to 255, I am in a Bought position. How might I go about this?

Obviously this is a system which requires frequent price monitoring and tweaking, but such is the plight of High Frequency trading. Thanks for your response! :D

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Theo
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby Theo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:24 am

Hi,
Just add a bot on the same pair that is seperate with roof in and drop loss, or dynamic roof in and drop loss.
IMO you can set this to be on the "bought" coin side of a fiat pair.

Then if the price dumps, you have your drop loss, and if you are not around to babysit then the roof in will buy back for you when the price starts trending up again.

In a bullish market you can do the opposite.

This is just a suggestion and I hope it helps.
-Theo

kapetan
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby kapetan » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:12 am

so this strategy to be complete needs 2 bots

one bot for bullish= prices going up
and
one for brearish=prices goin down
correct ?

"In a bullish market you can do the opposite."

can you give us some example of the oposite strategy to understand it better ?

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stephan
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby stephan » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:28 pm

Well in fact this strategy can be setup in even more ways and better. Personally i would advice 3 bots and i will explain why. But first lets have a look to what we have and what the thoughts are already.

I understand we are looking to an scalping strategy here and we are applying a high/low to make make it work. This is a good setup, but there is indeed an danger of going "out of scope", this happens when the price evolution goes upward or downward.

I see you have found the drop-loss and this is indeed the way to make sure you are SOLD in case the price drops. And to answer your question directly... think like this.... the price might go thought the roof, and we want to be in. Aka to get BOUGHT if the price goes up, we simply use the "Roof-in" safety.

So if we setup 1 bot it will look like this (globally):
- Price high/low indicator for the trading signals, set to buy at 235 and to sell at 248.
- Safety drop-loss for selling on a big price drop, set LOWER then the buy price of the high/low at 225
- Safety roof-in for buying on a big price raise, set HIGHER then the sell price of the high/low for example indeed 255

You can put this all in one trade-bot, but what Theo also points out using more bots is better here. I will explain why...

There is 1 (or even 2) situation where this strategy might fail if we put it inside 1 trade-bot. Imagine this situation.... the price has gone from 245 to 248 and the indicator has send the SELL command. But the price is going upward and as soon as it hits the safety on 255 then the safety will force a BUY signal. So far so good, but now the price has gone up just a little bit more and then it drops back to lets say 250. This means the safety allows trading again and our setup indicator wants to sell again. This would be our first losing trade. And in the event the price keep evolving between 250 and 260 then we keep on buying high and selling low.

We can prevent this from happening by not adding 1 bot but 2 more bots. And we have to use the priciple of "coin hijacking" to set this all up. So lets have a look to the best solution possible for this;

Trade-bot 1 "Our trading bot"
- Price high/low indicator for the trading signals, set to buy at 235 and to sell at 248.
Coin position: ?
Trade-amount: ?

Trade-bot 2 "Pair drop safety bot"
- Safety drop-loss for selling on a big price drop, set LOWER then the buy price of the high/low at 225
Coin position: BOUGHT
Trade-amount: All-in (=95%)

Trade-bot 3 "Pair roof safety bot"
- Safety roof-in for buying on a big price raise, set HIGHER then the sell price of the high/low for example indeed 255
Coin position: SOLD
Trade-amount: All-in (=95%)

If you read this setup properly then you can see trade-bot 2 or trade-bot 3 can hijack the coins from trade-bot 1 when the price goes out of scope. And this is exactly what we want. :) This will get us as safe as possible with this strategy.

BTW
Trade-bot 2 and 3 will give error messages like the trade-amount is invalid. Do NOT worry about this, just expect it because the logic allows this to happen. ;) (I am unsure how to explain/describe this)
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kapetan
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby kapetan » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:11 am

So to be more update to current prices
now price btc\ust at btc-e is 248,939 usd/btc

in one bot this stategy goes like this

btc\usd
trade amount 50/50 or all in (= 95%) or choose your amount you want to trade

- Fixed Roof-in (p 253) => sell
- Fixed Dop Loss (P 240) => buy
- HighLow (Buy 247, Sell 251), time internal 10 min - 30 min, buy and sell ckecked

in 3 bots this stategy goes like this

Bot 1 "Our trading bot"
trade amount 50/50 or choose your amount you want to trade

- HighLow (Buy 247, Sell 251), time internal 10 min - 30 min, buy and sell ckecked (?)

Bot 2 "Pair drop safety bot"
trade amount all in (= 95%)

- Fixed Dop Loss (P 240) => buy

Bot 3 "Pair roof safety bot"
trade amount all in (= 95%)

- Fixed Roof-in (p 253) => sell

I m right?

Can we use DynamicHighLow , DynamicDroploss and DynamicRoofin ??

brace
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby brace » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:04 am

Hi.
As a learning exercise i tried to configure in v3 beta the 3 bots of the 3 bots strategy discussed above.

I think I got why 3 bots are better than one, anyway i still have doubts.

bots 2 (drop loss) and 3 (roof in) are setup to trade "all in", so that the wallet switches fom bought to sold or viceversa.

bots 2 and 3 make the wallet "switch", but how do we tell bot1 to switch? I mean the safeties on bot2 and bot 3 work at wallet level, but unless i am wrong they do not "message bot1" to inform it that "the wallet status has been reversed".
moreover how to proceed once bot2 or bot3 take action? I need to manually set all the thresholds again? If i do not do this which is the real need of bot2 and bot3 in this setup?

Example1 (using numbers above from last kapetan post of Apr 04, 2015):
price is at 249, bot1 is in Bought position -> nothing happens
prise rasies at 251 -> bot1 sells at 251 (Highlow indicator), bot1 is in Sold position
prices raises at 255 -> bot3 has the roof-in at 253, bot3 buys all the wallet: how to tell bot1 to set itself in Bought position???
moreover at this point unless i change manually the bot1 HighLow settings, bot2 and bot3 drop and roof settings the 3 bots are uselss, right?


Example2 (using numbers above from last kapetan post of Apr 04, 2015):
price is at 249, bot1 is in Sold position -> nothing happens
prise drops at 246 -> bot1 buys at 247 (Highlow indicator), bot1 is in Bought position
prices drops more at 239 -> bot2 has the stop-loss at 240, bot2 sells all the wallet: how to tell bot1 to set itself in Sold position???
moreover at this point unless i change manually the bot1 HighLow settings, bot2 and bot3 drop and roof settings the 3 bots are uselss, right?

Before posting i read what i wrote and may be a concept i am missing is this: we do not need to tell bot1 to change position, in fact if bot is in Sold position but bot3 bought using all the wallet bot1 can't sell again, so bot1 can only buy, so when the price will drop again bot1 will start buying and somehow "we changed position of bot1 indirectly".

Please explain me if i am on the correct path. Thanks.

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Theo
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby Theo » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Hi,
Just put the dynamic stop loss and dynamic roof in , inside each bot. That should do away with any issues that you are talking about. The seperate droploss/roofin bot was a style I used with 2.0 but you are right that the bots can get "stuck" on the wrong side at times.

brace
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby brace » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:45 pm

Theo wrote:Hi,
Just put the dynamic stop loss and dynamic roof in , inside each bot. That should do away with any issues that you are talking about. The seperate droploss/roofin bot was a style I used with 2.0 but you are right that the bots can get "stuck" on the wrong side at times.

Sorry i do not understand your reply.
"Just put the dynamic stop loss and dynamic roof in , inside each bot. " which bots?

There is only one bot with an indicator (high/low), the other 2 are for safeties.

Could you please express yourself with different words?
"2.0 style" - what changes in 3.0?

Thanks.

startnow
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby startnow » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:28 pm

Could you please express yourself with different words?
"2.0 style" - what changes in 3.0?


I'm also interested in this.

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stephan
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Re: Help Translating a Particular Strategy

Postby stephan » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:31 pm

Its the same inside version 3. He was already using this technique back inside version 2 because back then it was already possible.

The concept is as follows:
Setup any bot(s) you like for normal trading.

Add in 1 new bot and give it the "Dynamic Stop-Loss". Set it to "Bought" and set it to All-in. The idea behind this bot is to wait till the price drop, if it happens then it is set to sell your entire wallet an make sure you are in the right position.

Add in another bot and give it the "Dynamic Roof-In". Set it to "Sold" and set it to "All-in". The idea behind this bot is to buy all it can as soon as the price goes up rapidly.

When you run this then the normal trading bot will do there work. But if the prices goes mad (drops, peaks) then the 2 extra bot take over. They will steal/hijack the coins from the normal bots.


Please be aware this is 1 of the 2 possible ways. Normally you setup an bot and give it the "Dynamic Stop-Loss" and the "Dynamic Roof-In" and then your are done. But if you apply this way then you do not have to give the normal bots those safeties. You will have these bots running on the background to cover for it.
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