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General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

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polyclick
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General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby polyclick » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:24 pm

Hi there!

So, I've been running the Haasbot software for about a week now. These are my impressions. I sincerely hope that the haasonline developers read this post and take all these comments as positive criticism. Also, I sincerely apologize if this post sounds a bit rage-y. I'm trying to keep the tone down, but I just can't ignore my massive frustrations with the software.

Why am I posting this here? Well, I never used this software before. So I hope by giving a fresh look from a new-comer, the developers are able to realize what new people will go through the first few days.

Some background information: I'm a developer myself for about 16 years (mostly web development). So, I know a thing or two about how application and web development goes. This makes it even harder for me to ignore how poorly this platform is (currently) written. I'm very sorry to say this. But keep reading, hopefully you understand why and maybe this gives some hints for the direction the developers of this platform should take.

Now don't understand me wrong. I'm not in the position to say what the developers should do, but as a paying client I sincerely believe that I'm allowed to have my opinion or at least let new-comers know where they get them into.

Ok, so I'm building my own bot for a few weeks now. Just as a research project for myself. Until one day, I was looking for some inspiration. So, I stumbled upon the haasonline website. It looked very appealing to me (now, here's a positive point! :P). So I emptied my pockets and subscribed for a subscription. From then on, well, it all went a bit downhill.

Still motivated back then I decided to download the OSX client, because, well, I'm a mac user. This was my first mistake. After doing the required stuff (installing some extra framework et al). I launched the software. I took extremely long to load (I'm on a mac with massive CPU & memory power, so this isn't a hardware problem). When I launched the software, it instantly crashed on me. Ok, so I tried again. The initial wizard appeared on my screen. After entering the first few lines of information and selecting my preferred exchange, the app hung. Ok, I restarted again. After that, I could proceed by logging into my account. But then, after logging in, it crashed again.

At that moment my first negative feelings started to arise. I was like: "Ok, is this thing really going to crash every time on me?". And yes it did, over and over and over. Now, you should know, this app manages a part of my money, so I got a bit angry and couldn't accept the fact that it crashed so regularly on me.

That's when I decided to leave the osx version for what it was. I reinstalled my VMWARE with windows 10 and installed haasbot. That worked a bit better. At least, the haasserver didn't crash anymore.

After reconfiguring everything (yes, another frustration of course). I decided to jump in. But boy, my frustrations kept growing by the minute.

I'm currently in a state that I totally don't trust the software anymore. Over the last five days so many stuff went wrong that led me to the conclusion that the software is completely useless to me. Which is frustrating, because I have payed money for this!! Something that I find totally unacceptable.

Here are some examples:

Backtesting can't be trusted
Ok, so the first few moments when I bought the software, I started fooling around with configuring my own bot. Almost every sub-screen of the bot configuration process has a bug. The one which is the most frustrating: settings don't get remembered. Every time when I change a setting I have to go "back" and click my bot again. If that doesn't work, I have to go to the main dashboard, and back into my bot configuration. This stuff takes A LOT of time and if very frustrating. This frustration gets reaches even more highs with all the graphics errors and inconsistencies that arise.

Then, bot indicators, I can change the parameters of these but never see my changes applied to the right of the screen (candlestick market view). NEVER. I have to "guess" what the right parameters are. OR I have to set up an insurance and hover that insurance to see when the indicator would buy/sell and the insurance applies its logic.

Next, since I'm new to trading and trading indicators in general; I wanted to try out the indicator scanner. So that it could help me to choose the right parameters. Now, the indicator scanner is probably the mo bugged thing I ever saw. Every time when I enter the indicator scanner via the icon on a bot's indicator setting panel, the indicator doesn't get prefilled with my settings. Then, when I drag the periode it should scan, it always flips around some other values on the indicator scanner settings screen. So, EVERY TIME, I lose my pervious settings, very frustrating.
A lot of the times the indicator scanner gives me a performance indication of -999, yielding useless again.
Then, when after a lot of frustration I DO get a result, I want to copy it to my bot. It then copies the result as a NEW indicator. I didn't ask that. Then, when I run a backtest on my suggested indicator it ALWAYS yields a negative result. The result is SO negative, that I can do it better on my own, but then again I have this market view on the right that doesn't refresh. So every time I need to go back and forth out/in my bot to get my settings applied.

It even gets worse. Let's say you want to do some backtesting on a bot configuration you set up. You run the backtest and it give a result of about 5% profit. I like that, but I want to make it a bit better, so you start fooling around again with the indicator settings. Try some different backtests, all yielding very random results. There's no logic there. Really. When eventually I decide to put back my original values, and run the backtest again, the result isn't 5% again (or something close to it), no, it's sooooo different that it doens't make sense at all (like -65,4%). Now, a small disclaimer: you should know that I clear my backtest history EVERY TIME (which is frustrating to do also... so many clicks every time). Disclaimer 2: I always pick the exact same date range while backtesting. You can test this yourself. I'm sure it will result in different values.

The dashboard and widgets. These things are buggy as hell. Most of the time, half of them never loads. Then I need to re-enter the dashboard about 3 or 4 times to see the widget content popping up.

The custom bots. Like the scalper bot. I had -some- success with them, but most of the time, after a while, they completely stop trading. Not that it should, I didn't tell them to stop. I even checked, there were a lot of possible situations it could trade. But it just stops and never does a thing again. Then, you have to remove it, re-configure everything and start it again. Then it works again, ... for a while.

General interface stuff: one of my biggest frustration is that stuff in the interface randomly changes its values. For instance: if you run a backtest on a bot, suddenly, after the backtest the "starting position" of the bot has switched from bought to sold. Seriously frustrating. There are more situations where stuff like this happens.

The market view and drawing tools. So, I then decided I wanted to do some manual trading. I don't know if you tried, but these drawing tools they offer at the top are extremely buggy. Just putting down some markers where you bought/sold can result in a whole lot of frustration. Sometimes, you see something weird getting drawn, you can't undo that in an easy way. The only thing you can do is right click and hope the undo removed the last random drawing. Sometimes by doing this you lose your own drawn content. Very frustrating.

User interface and user experience. Since this software manages my money; I want to have the feeling that everything is robust and solid. I can't find a screen that works bug free. Not even 1. The overal user experience has a lot of flaws. I don't think there has been done any review on the general user experience. It all feels a bit developer-y. Apart from all the reloading, going back and forth, changing stuff manually every time, ... I noticed a lot of inconsistancies in the interface. Like: save buttons. Sometime you get them, sometimes there are 3 for one screen, sometime there are none. It's totally unclear when thing get saved and when not.

Did you know it took me 5 log-in/log-out's to realize that the auto-logout setting has a seperate save button? I always pushed the save button at the bottom of the settings page, so my auto-logout setting never got saved.

Sometimes, like today. The app logs my out when I click my dashboard button. Just randomly. Then it takes about 2 minutes before the login screen reappears. It then appears but at a snail's pace.

To add up to the frustration is the english. Now, I know, my english isn't the best either. You probably already noticed by reading this post. But this is a forum post; which isn't the case for the haasbot. Which should be professional financial trading software. The overall spelling and language is very unclear and contains a lot of errors. Which is frustrating for me, as a beginner, because things get interpreted all wrong.

Then, the quick buy/sell menu at the top right. This is buggy too. The previous time I chose 'Poloniex XMR/BTC' from the menu, but it showed me the XMR/BTC rate in USD (Like: 0.001254 USD). Ok, so that was weird. But after getting used the buggyness I then decided to change the currency temporarily to something else and then back to XMR/BTC which fixed the problem.

Ok, so I'm going to wrap up with some general advice I would like to hear myself as a developer. First of all; please get the basics just right. I know, it's very tempting to invent new features or implement great ideas from the community, but if the basics aren't working as they should, the software is (almost) useless. For me personally it currently feels like a glorifid manual trading platform with some useful bot trading functionality. That's it.

Also, you should realize that people, like me, who take the management of their money seriously, need to get a feeling of robustness. This seaps through in EVERY element of the software. From solid inteface design, to an enjoyable user experience, bugless trading and the correct use of the English language in your interface.

A trading bot should make our life easier by doing the work for us. That's why we love bots. Currently we have to babysit every bot. Now, I understand that we probably have to check up our bots from time to time, that's normal. But we shouldn't babysit our bots and constantly need to check wether they stopped trading due to a bug.

Please get the whole bot configuration fixed. The amount of bugs in this part of the software is huge, this is unacceptable for a piece of software that sells itself as an automatic trading platform.

I'd like to end with a positive note: you guys really have a great concept and piece of software to put onto the market, as long as you get your focus right. I hope this post helps with realizing that.

All the best

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stephan
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby stephan » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:17 pm

Thank you very much for this complete post, these comments are very clear and its clear to us what kind of problems you have encountered. This is not alright.

The full team has been notified and we are trying to solve all the points you have written down. However, we will reach limits too. It was pretty clear to me you have some big speed issues and as a result you did encounter the interface problems. The saving event of a setting for example is working of course but the reason why it did not worked for you was because of the load. The software itself is progressing to much data and if it does then the UI can respond very slow. The solution to this problem will be by enabling the Low Power option inside the Settings. I think if you enable this option a lot of issues will be gone.

For the other reported issues i have no direct advice or comments, a closer look will be required. The only thing i can tell is that we do not fill the orders, we only place and guard them. If needed we do try to compensate the trade-amount, but there are limits to what can be done.

BTW If this happens to anybody, please know we do have refund procedures set. The software has to work properly, this is what we stand for. Only connectivity issues and hardware limitations are excluded because that is outside of our control.
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polyclick
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby polyclick » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:48 am

Hi Stephan

Thanks for taking the time to repond. I've enabled the low power mode but this doesn't solve the problems. The only thing that happens is that the dashboards load a tiny bit faster. That's it.

Also, I'm on a quad core mac pro with 16gb of ram and a high speed internet connection. I monitorred my cpu/ram and network status and nothing is peaking to the limit when using te software. So, sorry, I cannot take this as an acceptable answer.

Furthermore, some more bugs are popping up. And these are 100% not hardware related:

Trade logbook regularly shows me "NaN %" as profit. See screenshot.
Now, this isn't the worst thing, but it adds up to the rest.

HTS_-_Custom_bots.png
not a number


Then, a LOT worse. I have had this bug 3 times in the last 2 days.
I currently have an XMR/BTC scalper bot running with an amount of 50 XMR to buy/sell per trade. Now, when let's say, the bot wants to buy 50 XMR, it sometimes happens that only a part of the order gets filled. Well, ok, I understand that. This might happen. But THEN, the bot totally stops trading, because it expects 50 XMR to be in my wallet, but it only got, let's say, 39 XMR. So it just sits there, waiting for the wallet to have 50 XMR.

Now, i've been in luck for 3 times, because I saw this happening on time, and the coin I invested in was bullish, so I could manually fix it by stopping the bot and doing some manual trading. But what if the coin crashed? Then I would be sitting there with 39 XMR in my wallet that doesn't get sold.

Then, to make it even worse. the trade log screen shows me that exactly 50 XMR was traded. Which is totally untrue of course. There were only 39 XMR traded.

HTS_-_Custom_bots-tradelog.png
trade log
HTS_-_Custom_bots-tradelog.png (75.1 KiB) Viewed 1556 times


HTS_-_Custom_bots-log.png
log
HTS_-_Custom_bots-log.png (29.41 KiB) Viewed 1556 times


What should happen:
- either you try to fill the whole volume with multiple tries so you are sure that the bot trades 50 xmr
- either you correct the bot that the current volume is 39 XMR, and after selling you correct it back to tot original value of 50 XMR

polyclick
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby polyclick » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:30 pm

Another bug that happens to me regularly (about 7 out of 10 times):

When I click my dashboard, haasbot logs out and hangs on the preparing interface screen.
Then I manually have to remove everything after the host web address to get back the login screen.
Then I can log back in.

(no errors get logged to the browser console.)

See screencast: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b4pzhllcv5dy5 ... t.mp4?dl=0

Screenshot:

dashboard-logout.png

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pshai
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby pshai » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:56 pm

Nice one. Same things are bothering me (with Poloniex). Good thing you can explain them better and in more detail than I can. :P


Thanks for bringing these up!
~pshai


EDIT:
polyclick wrote:Also, I'm on a quad core mac pro with 16gb of ram and a high speed internet connection. I monitorred my cpu/ram and network status and nothing is peaking to the limit when using te software. So, sorry, I cannot take this as an acceptable answer.

Yes, it's not using that much of CPU nor ram, unless there's multiple bots running live. And most of the data goes through the web-sockets, which are pretty slow, afaik.
~Thou shall profit if thou art patient.~

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stephan
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby stephan » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:22 pm

I really believe something is holding you back, because this is abnormal.

This is of course a little hard to prove, but i do have demonstration server running at http://demo.haasonline.com:8090/ username "showme" password "evolution". This is running on a 4-core VPS with 2 GB memory and there are some more applications running on it. So this is a pretty stressed server and you must be able to outperfom this with ease. If not then you are indeed hold back.

About the real system load. I fully understand you watch the total CPU load, but this is representing the work the CPU is doing. What you are not seeing is the load the CPU has to progress. Each CPU has a X amount of threads it can use and on the background your computer is running many threads. - To see this information please go to the Task manager, select the Performance tab and right click on the CPU chart. You will see a option listed saying "View kernel times". Please check this option and watch your chart. The more darken part is the load, it has to be small.

There is a way to see it inside the software as well. If you double click the icon on the upper left corner then a debug part will show up. Inside it we got a heartbeat listed and this should should a stable line at 20 beats.


About the orders, we do have a threshold programmed to accept a partially filled orders. Its set to 80% and it indeed adjusts the trade amount. The percentage of 80% was chosen to cover for the most options. You are trading with 50 units and others trade with just 1 or 2 units and then this threshold get more complicated. (but maybe we can improve a few things in here, agreed)

If you progress bigger amounts then the risk increases the order will be partially filled. For the scalper bot there is not a direct solution except for setting up more scalper bots. This is because it are easy bots, starter bots. If you use a (more advanced) trade-bot instead then you can use something called a "Order template". Inside order template you can define to split your bots its trade amount over 2, 3, 4 up to 10 orders. This way you can reach the same goal, progress higher amounts and make it all work better.


FYI: After a lot of discussion we have found no bugs inside the backtesting engine. There are indeed some odd results but it was possible to explain all of them. The leading cause of strange results was the staring coin position. If this flips because of a backtest then results are impacted. But we do favor it to have it adjustable to provide the most flexibility. So i understand your complains about those, you are right but nothing is broken inside it.

In addition, i have added small image of one of the images we discussed a lot and which lead to different results.
24vs48test.png

Do not mind the typo on the second chart. The top chart is pretty clear but the second chart can (for example) flip the coin position, leading to a situation where the first buy gets ignored.
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pshai
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby pshai » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:28 pm

Stephan,

Not sure if you understood the problem with the trade amounts, but what polyclick mentioned, it's actually HAZARDOUS for any trader!!
The bot is nothing more than stupid if it "can't" trade less than the amount set. I've told you the same thing way too many times in these 6 months and no improvements nor even attention on this problem have been made. It's CRITICAL, and you only ignore the fact that the bot is stupid.

I'll quote myself from another thread:
pshai wrote:And with Poloniex, the trade amounts aren't working correctly:
- You set trade amount to 1.
- Bot makes a buy trade.
- Bot now has 0.9975 (Market Order entry) or 0.9985 (Limit Order entry) coins, because of commission fees (MO: 0.25%, LO: 0.15%)
- Bot fails to sell 0.99xx coins, because you told it to trade with 1.
- Bot is confused.
Your bot is now stuck at Bought -position and will stay there forever, unless you manually help it out.


And that is exactly what is happening on Poloniex, because; The. Bot. Is. Stupid.
If, just IF the bot would understand that it doesn't need 50 XMR to trade 39 XMR, IT WOULD BE AMAZING! But it doesn't. So stop going around the problem and explaining irrelevant stuff and JUST FIX IT.
~Thou shall profit if thou art patient.~

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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby ehsan » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:18 pm

Just discovered this post in bot dashboard. Thanks to pshai for providing complete reports of bot issues that I reported repeatedly via support ticket or forum post. Noob, No trader even no Developer, agreed that I am. But I saw 99% of above errors and crashes too. Wallet issue in Scalper bot costs me money too.

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stephan
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby stephan » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:16 am

pshai wrote:Not sure if you understood the problem with the trade amounts, but what polyclick mentioned, it's actually HAZARDOUS for any trader!!


No its not HAZARDOUS, i just must teach you all better how to handle this. All you need to do is to setup a trade-bot, set it to Bought, All-in and give it a Stop-loss. This bot does nothing normally, but if the market crashes then it will hijack the coins form the other bots and sell everything to keep you safe.

pshai wrote:The bot is nothing more than stupid if it "can't" trade less than the amount set. I've told you the same thing way too many times in these 6 months and no improvements nor even attention on this problem have been made. It's CRITICAL, and you only ignore the fact that the bot is stupid.


I did not ignore it, the change you want me to make just moves the problem. If bots can adjust downwards then they have to be able to adjust upwards as well else you could end up with 0 as trade-amount. When they adjust upward then they must assume the coins are available for trading. If you got more bots running, then it can be possible coins get stolen from them and make them stop trading. In the worst case if you have a mad bot then it can drain your full wallet. So this not a solution.

pshai wrote:And with Poloniex, the trade amounts aren't working correctly:
- You set trade amount to 1.
- Bot makes a buy trade.
- Bot now has 0.9975 (Market Order entry) or 0.9985 (Limit Order entry) coins, because of commission fees (MO: 0.25%, LO: 0.15%)
- Bot fails to sell 0.99xx coins, because you told it to trade with 1.
- Bot is confused.
Your bot is now stuck at Bought -position and will stay there forever, unless you manually help it out.


This is the code which is executed and it proofs without a doubt the fee it taken in account properly. Plus you can see the 80% threshold level coded as well.
corection.png

Yes, the fee is higher then what it should be at Poloniex, but this does not get your bots stalled, instead it leaves a small amount remaining which the bot does not show. Its extra gain.

pshai wrote:If, just IF the bot would understand that it doesn't need 50 XMR to trade 39 XMR, IT WOULD BE AMAZING! But it doesn't. So stop going around the problem and explaining irrelevant stuff and JUST FIX IT.


I can not fix this, the advice is to stay between 0.1 BTC and 0.5 BTC with a scalper-bot. Warnings are set to use a low trade amount and if 1 BTC get setup (50 XMR = 1BTC) you are going behind specifications. All you can do is spread it or move to a trade-bot.

But maybe it is good if we add in a line with the min and max amount next to the trade-amount setting. Just to give a better direction.
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Re: General impression from a beginner. Developers, please read.

Postby Puffy23 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:50 am

Hi Guys,

I recently purchased the Haasbot software myself and have been having quite a few problems while running it. My search for a help ticket or support forum has lead me here, and wouldn't you know, I have been experiencing almost every single problem, issue, and bug as the OP.

I first installed Hassbot on an iMac (i7 3.5GHz 16GB RAM) and experienced a crash every time a price chart would load. I tried running it on POLO Margin, then POLO without margin, then GDAX. I tried different currency pairs as well, every time a chart would try to load the system would crash. Basically the software was completely unusable on my iMac.

I moved over to an HP laptop I had sitting around that I thought *may* be fast enough to run the software (i7 2.4GHz 8GB RAM). The program launches, but I couldn't say it is functional. The first thing I wanted to do was set up a quick test bot, add an indicator, and try the optimization. Boy was this a frustrating experience. I have an account on TradingView so I've already set up a back-test on most of the indicators alone and combined. That experience was incredibly good. Doing the same on Haasbot was a incredibly cumbersome. If I used the optimizer I could no longer manually adjust a single setting. Even if I changed the values and clicked on save the 'optimized' values would just reappear. This was annoying when it came time to back-test. I basically have to recreate the entire bot if I want to tweak settings for back-test comparisons. What I did run gave me wildly different results to the point that I decided to move back to TradingView to create my strategy.

While working my strategy out on TradingView I was doing a bit on manual trading. I decided to set up a quick stop-loss bot on Haasbot so I could set my goal with the exchange (using POLO so I can't set goal and stop at the same time with their interface). Creating the bot was easy. Then I started it and it ran great. Until it came time to execute the stop. The trading amount was set to 0. I knew for sure I had plugged in my active short amount. I recreated the bot and discovered that the Haasbot software pre-fills the short amount based on polling from the server and detecting my active short. The 'no-position' trading amount was pre-filled with my current short p/l and the buy trading amount was set to 0. Any change to these has no affect, they just go back to the default pre-filled amounts. I've tried deleting my bot, recreating and setting trading amounts manually and had no success. I can't even use the Haasbot software to execute a simple stop because I can't tell it how much it's allowed to trade.

The trade server in my terminal window is basically just a spam of errors. It keeps reporting that nonce must be great than xxxxxxxxxxx followed by a websock error. Over and over.

I don't want anyone reading this to mistakenly believe I am angry. I think this software has great potential and I'm excited to use it. That said, at 0.1BTC/month I was expecting to fire up enterprise software. After a few days of use and not being able to run a bot, the software feels more like an alpha release. If the functional bugs were fixed it would still feel like a beta release due to the 'script firing' feel.

Like the OP, I want my trading software to feel solid in daily use and indestructible with regards to the basics (the fancy stuff can come later). I hope this confirmation of the OP's experience helps to solve some of the issues. If any of the of development team needs any info, logs, screen shots, or videos just let me know and I would be happy to assist any way I can.

Regards,
-Ryan


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